The health secretary accused Anthony Fauci of “creating coronavirus” and suggested the COVID-19 vaccine may have “killed” more people than it saved.

Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. gave a rambling interview on The Tucker Carlson Show Monday, going deep into anti-vaccine rhetoric, accusing Anthony Fauci of “creating” COVID-19, and admitting that the Trump’s trade wars are “hurting” people and businesses.

Kennedy suggested that former President Joe Biden preemptively pardoned Fauci—who led the government response to the COVID-19 pandemic as the director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID)—because “he had a lot of liability on creating coronavirus.”

Biden said Fauci’s preemptive pardon was needed because of threats of “unjustified and politically motivated prosecutions” by the incoming administration.Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

Pushing the unproven theory that the virus leaked from a lab in Wuhan, China, Kennedy pointed out that the facility had received funds from NIAID. But when Carlson asked what the rationale would be for engineering such a deadly virus in a foreign lab, the health secretary had no answer.

“I try not to look in other people’s heads,” he said, before going on to accuse Fauci of having a “God complex.”

Kennedy, who regularly dabbles in conspiracy theories, spent much of the interview casting doubt on research that confirms vaccine safety, and once again suggested vaccines could cause autism, despite the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stating there is “no link.”

Kennedy, a registered Democrat until last year, said Trump’s behavior “sometimes validates” the “narrative” of him as a “bombastic narcissist.”Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

“Do you think overall, the COVID vaccine killed more than it saved?” Carlson asked at one point.

“My opinion about that is irrelevant,” the health secretary replied. “I would not say one or the other, and the truth is I don’t know, and the reason I don’t know is because the studies that were done by my agency were substandard and they were not designed to answer that question.”

The World Health Organization says COVID-19 vaccines are safe, noting that more than 13 billion doses have been administered globally.

Kennedy called for the government to establish “Truth Commissions,” similar to those used to investigate human rights abuses in post-apartheid South Africa, to provide a platform for victims of “vaccine injuries” and create a path to prosecute public officials like Fauci.

Later, the conversation turned to Trump, with whom Carlson was feuding only two weeks ago, after the usually Trump-friendly former Fox News host accused the president of abandoning the “America First” movement.

Kennedy, a registered Democrat until last year, said that while Trump’s behavior “sometimes validates” the “narrative” of him as a “bombastic narcissist,” he was surprised to discover a “deep, multidimensional” side to the president.

Carlson, usually a Trump-ally, recently slammed the president for involving the U.S. in Israel’s attack on Iran despite promising an end to foreign wars.Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

“He cries when he hears (Luciano) Pavarotti,” Kennedy said. “He’s encyclopedic in certain areas you wouldn’t expect like music.”

Even as he lavished Trump with admiration, however, Kennedy crossed a line in Trumpworld by acknowledging the negative fallout from Trump’s trade wars.

“A lot of the people and businesses are hurting because of the tariffs, but I admire President Trump because he’s looking over the horizon,” he said, noting that the country needs a “revolution” even if it’s “going to be disruptive to many, many people.”

Kennedy also revealed that Trump chose cabinet members based on their ability to sell “his program to the public.”

Kennedy and his wife Cheryl Hines walk together at the White House. The health secretary said Hines “loves” Attorney General Pam Bondi.Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images

“For every one of the positions that he picked he wanted to see three clips of them performing on TV,” he said.

Asked by Carlson who he likes most in the Cabinet, Kennedy said he gets along well with Attorney General Pam Bondi—noting that his wife, actress Cheryl Hines, “loves Pam”—and with Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

“Marco Rubio is the funniest guy in the cabinet,” he said. “He says things that make people belly-laugh at every cabinet meeting.”